The Power of the Pseudonym

Throughout the entire video, not one artist was introduced by his own name. Whether it was Cap, Daze, Dondi, Frosty Freeze, Kase 2, Seen, Skeme, or Crazy Legs, the names were not the ones they were born with. The use of pseudonyms signified that recognition did not matter to them in the same way as it did (and still does) to "conventional artists." One could argue that the art of graffiti holds more integrity than art in a museum for this reason. On the other side of the coin, one could argue that they are hiding behind a false identity so that their actions don't have any repercussions. Today, the concept of a pseudonym is slightly more complex. In the case of Banksy, the most widely known current "street artist," the public doesn't know his true identity. The pseudonym actually serves a purpose, adding to the mystery that surrounds him and his work. Additionally, there are theories that Banksy is a group of people instead of one man. Either way, the power of the pseudonym is undeniable.

Graffiti is art - Tagging is not

After this morning's discussion, I believe that graffiti is art; a nonconvention form of art, but art none-the-less. The writers are looking to shock and sometimes anger the viewers. Most are looking to get their message across and the method of doing that just happens to be painting on a public surface. Yes, it can create controversy and anger many people, but that's the whole point- to create a piece of controversial art, have people see it, and get a reaction to it, regardless if it's positive or negative. The writers in the video blantantly state they are trying to get as many people to see and recognize it as possible, hence trains being a popular medium. Unfortunately, there is also tagging, which I think is complete destruction. Taggers are simply there to destroy something and get attention for it. It is not pretty, it is not thought-provoking, and it is not a piece of art.

Judging/Defining art

This is just a quick thought, but the quote that opened the video and our class discussion today stating that Graffitti is not art, but paint applied to a surface (I know that's not word-for-word) reminded me of what Truman Capote said when he read On the Road by Jack Kerouac. Of the novel, which most consider a literary classic and a huge cultural influence, Capote said, "That's not writing, that's typing." I think that both of these statements just show how objective art is, and no matter what, no one person can define art or judge it for anyone other than themselves.

From Punk to Hip-Hop

I’m glad to see that we are making a transition from punk to hip-hop. While hip-hop may not have originated during our time I find it so much easier to relate to. Similar to the evolution of punk, hip-hop has deviated from some of the original ideals it was founded on. Most of these deviations are still common within our present-day culture. In the case of punk however, we are not as familiar since many of its principles are not as common. Additionally, the video titled “Style Wars” puts a good perception on the meaning of a subculture and the struggle between artistic self-expression and socially unacceptable destruction. Some of the individuals go far enough to explain why they choose to “bomb” the subway—introducing us to the artistic aspects. Politics has taken center stage in regards to the issues surrounding the graffiti all over the city and subway lines. A few days ago (when I was responsible for leading the class discussion) I had asked if subculture could effectively generate a reaction from government through their actions? As seen in this video, some would argue the government’s reaction is an intrusion on individuality. However, can individuality exist within a subculture? Doesn’t following the ideals, style, and actions of a subculture make you less of an individual? Or is it possible to distinguish yourself as an individual through actions that are acceptable in the eyes of the subculture (i.e. graffiti)? These were just some things that I found interesting as watched this video.

Punk vs. Grunge

We have talked about punk vs grunge in our youth cultures but it seems like its hard to differentiate between the two in part because musically they are very similar but also very different. I have no right to say i am the master of these music styles or that i can comprehend each culture fully, but i will say that i have listened to both styles of music exstensively and understand them more than most. Punk as I consider it is much faster, its lyrics are often much more direct in their approach, the vocal style often involves screaming, the time signature of the songs is almost always in common time. As opposed to punk, grunge is slower and to some degree heavier, depending on which grunge band your listening to, the vocal range can be impressive or less then ideal, songs are not always in common time and in my opinion the stronger of the grunge bands employed odd time signatures, lyrical content is often darker and much more ambigious. In terms of ideology both genres are similar, as are most youth cultures that involve music, true punk or true grunge says the same thing to the same people; fuck you we are going to do it our way.

Week 4

Open for discussion about punk ideology, the development of punk over time (why did it happen that way?), whether the specific music technique matters (punk v. grunge), and the role of youth in critiquing society (Lipsitz).

Comment to Jonah's post

Blogger is acting up for me. I meant this to comment on Jonah's last post but it won't load the submission.

I see youth subcultures as a way for young people to develop a style and set of ideals that will carry into their adulthood. Often members of these subcultures are people who find their lives lacking guidance and see the community of the subculture as a way to find a place for themselves. But as most people age they find an individuality that eventually separates themselves from the nucleus of the subculture and they lose the connections they once had or at least don't hold them as high in their priorities. So though there might be older people at punk or metal shows, they may not be part of the subculture; they may be enjoying one of the few ties that they still have to the subculture (and music would certainly be one of the stronger ties) and are not trying to get a high off of being around young people and acting the way they do. Or they might be and just never grew up. I firmly believe that youth subcultures are strictly for youth.

Those Old Folks...

Today in class we discussed the idea of adults being involved in a Youth subculture and how that reflected on them. There was talk of "irresponsibility" and of whether or not adults are "creepy" or wrong for continuing to show up at concerts and the like. I consider myself a member of a subculture and possessing some experience with seeing of people of a variety of ages being involved. I have seen kids younger than myself and adults (both men and women) much older than me at metal shows banging their heads with the rest of the crowd. Some say that 8-year-olds are too young to be in that situation and it equates to being dragged to an R-rated movie. There is also the assertion that creepy old people shouldn't be hanging around with kids because they're obviously there to exploit them. Have you ever been to a heavy metal concert? I have. I've seen people of all ages there, and they're doing exactly what I'm doing: rocking out. I find it really cool to meet people of my parents' generation who listen to heavy metal. Whether it was at my mom's high-level banking job, the veterinarian, or the nurse when I was donating blood, I've met metalheads everywhere. I even remember walking down the street in an upscale shopping section of Pittsburgh one day and seeing a guy, fancy car and suit, with his windows down blasting "Of Wolf and Man" by Metallica. I put up the 'horns' and he responded in kind. This was not creepy to me at all, rather it was extremely cool. Steve has mentioned a similar experience with a teacher at his school and I am sure both of us have other stories we could tell. I believe that the reason people see adults at shows as creepy is because there is a norm that states that adults are too stuffy to have fun the way kids do. If you look at most pop music then seeing adults at a show like Lady Gaga or Britney Spears might be weird. However, when you look at a youth subculture there are people of all ages who consider themselves a part of it. To me that shows that a subculture is able to survive and spread its ideas (and in my case music) and you need an older generation to influence the younger kids. When I saw Exodus (a metal band) I was standing next to a woman who (to my surprise because she looked my age) was much older than I was. At the end of the show the guitarist handed her his pick instead of me (not a surprise), but she turned and gave it to me and saying "I'm going to give this to you but you have to promise me you're going to listen to good music for the rest of your life". I did.

Are business and commerce separate from a subculture?

I was thinking about this topic from something mentioned during Tuesday's discussion. Particularly with the punk subculture in mind, must subcultures be separate from business minded agendas? I've decided for myself that it's not so black and white. It seems as subcultures gain some notoriety from the general public in a capitalist society businesses want to profit off of that.

Youth are an especially big target for new clothing and it makes sense in McLaren's case that he wanted a vehicle to promote his style of clothing. I wouldn't say that this choice alone is one that pushed punk into the mainstream though. The mainstream acceptance of punk that would follow was a by-product of McLaren's efforts through the musical success of the Sex Pistols. In other words, the Sex Pistols' success is what brought punk to a larger audience not simply the attempt to sell punk clothing. Therefore it is surely possible for youth cultures and businesses to interact without that subculture losing its integrity however due to the nature of attempts by businesses to promote themselves sometimes it is hard to avoid.

Something Else I was thinking about

So while reading the chapter that we discussed in class today I came a cross a section which was intriguing, but didn't end up being discussed today which was the movements to "De-Punk" children by parent and law enforcement groups as well as the stories of teenagers who were put in to mental institutions because of their involvement in the Punk community. I'll write something about it on my own blog (which coincidentally I had started before this class began). Feel free to comment etc. I'd like to see what you think.

http://thrashingmetalmind.blogspot.com/

Jonah

Week 3: Punk's Not Dead and Punk Attitude (and other thoughts about youth subcultures)

I'll start off by saying that I definitely think style can be a message. I think Punk's had a definite ideology, an anti-establishment, anti-authority attitude, that was meaningful to them and had an impact on society at large. Style can be a significant statement and is not simply a trivial matter of how people dress.

Class so Far

Hello Everyone,

So my opinion of class so far is that I agree with the redundancy of the discussions so far, but I feel like that will change the more different material we get in to. I'm looking forward to discussing the Punk is Dead article that we read for tomorrow as it informed me of many facts about the punk subculture of which I was unaware. I enjoy the discussions and, as a main contributor, I will take the below posts advice and sit back tomorrow to let other have a chance to express their ideas.

Meta-discussion

Noticing a trend after only a few class discussions, I am concerned that our conversations have or will soon become redundant. At times I am frustrated by the frequent redundancy of opinion sharers, topics discussed, and general life-experience based support of opinion.

In addressing my first complaint, I really want to urge that more people try to share their opinions in class. After reading the previously posted blogs authored by my classmates, I noticed that a lot of people electronically voiced questions that the class discussions have engendered. I know that sometimes it can be difficult to find your voice during a class discussion, but I feel like too many of the questions posted by my classmates on the blogs are too insightful, contentious, or refreshingly original to not offer to the class as topics of discussion during classroom discourse. I also noticed that a fellow student blogged about being frustrated by things discussed in class that he finds to be “completely wrong”. I’m sure everyone might feel this way at some point and I would really love if classmates voiced their opposition in class. The discussion will not only benefit from varying opinions, but contradicting a classmate’s opinion can also be personally satisfying. Similarly, I would urge anyone who feels like they are talking a lot to perhaps sit back and listen a little more and allow certain people, who are slow to jump in, a chance to share their opinions. Some people, although they have great opinions, are a little hesitant to share, and self-monitoring your own “floor time” might help these students and consequently the conversation.

My second and third complaint to me, seem to go hand in hand. I really hope that everyone actually reads the assigned readings. I think that the topics in the readings should help spark new discussion topics and referring to the reading in supporting your own personal opinion probably won’t hurt your argument or ethos.

I know that I may sound hypercritical and possibly hypocritical, but I would really love to hear different opinions in class and think that our class discussion could only benefit from the contribution of everyone.

New Perspective

In the past two weeks I've found our class discussions to be mentally stimulating on so many levels. Prior to taking this class I've never thought of individuals or even myself for that matter as part of a specific subculture . However, I now have a broader perspective of different subcultures and why they chose to dress and act in different ways. On the other hand, I seem to be having a little trouble defining "mainstream." I understand the actual definition but it seems to be something hard to visualize. If subcultures can affect the mainstream over the course of time then isn't mainstream itself is constantly changing? These issues aren't contemporary in nature and will follow the lives of every generation. These class discussions have become part of my everyday life now. For instance, tonight I watched the VMA's and felt as though a new generation of music and style has emerged. Additionally, I watched how specific iconic figures took these styles to a new extreme (Lady Gaga, Usher, Kanye West). I look forward to more in-depth conversations in class regarding past and present issues affecting youth subcultures.

Discussions

I don't consider myself part of any subculture, so I have trouble relating to any of the things being discussed. Even so, I find the class discussions very interesting. It seems like the main problem the class is having is that no one can decide what exactly a subculture even is. Is it a group of people who have a common interest, or is it deeper than that? Does the subculture have to be the main thing in your life for you to be considered a member? Once you try to define it you risk leaving out groups of people who would probably consider themselves to be part of something. It all seems very subjective.
On a different note, I think the class also tends to fall into a hole sometimes where it focuses only on groups based around music.

Just Interest or A Participant?

I really enjoyed the class discussion on teenagers and subculture experience. Thanks to Laura and Missy for the great leading questions.
Judging from these articles and also from what we have experienced and known of, teenagers around the age of 12 to 18 are most likely to join subcultures. During this time of the life, one is eager to find out his/her identity and interests. Unlike children, teenagers just develop the sense of independence, they are willing to try out new and exciting things; they want to explore and expand their eyesights. Therefore, they are also the in the group that can be under influence easily (good or bad). Due to the divergent nature of subcultures, teens are likely to discover the excitement and difference of a subculture group, and start to be absorbed in it.
When teens gradually settled their interest, or say formed their identity, they start to see clearly what they really want and where their passion truely lies on, they either devote into the subculture group or drop out of it. People do not really "grow out of it" because they are adult and they have to take social responsibilities. As many of the examples shown by us that there are a lot of adults who are still passionate about what they are into when they were kids, growing age is not the clear cut line of in or out of a subculture. Age does matter, since it let people consider what they should do logically; but it really depends on individual situation whether people stay in the subculture group they were into.
Lindsey addressed an excellent point that I strongly feel as well that we need to make it clear--what is really being a part of a subculture and how is it different from just like part of it, or interested in it? Shouldn't one incorporate the subculture entirely into one's life style to be considered a part of the subculture? Or how can we define if the adult is still in this subculture?

Thoughts on Class Discussions

Although I am one of the quieter students in class, each and everyday I leave class with a broader view on things discussed and new opinions on topics. It's very interesting to hear people's views who definitely associate themselves with a youth subculture versus those who are not as involved with a particular subculture. I came into this class with limited knowledge on subcultures, and in only a few classes I have learned so much and also learned to appreciate why people join subcultures and how they come to be. Our class discussions have also made me think about myself and my associations with various subcultures and to what degree my involvement is in those subcultures. I'm very excited to see where this class goes, and I'm definitely looking forward to the wealth of knowledge I plan to take away from this class at the end of the semester.

Thought This Seemed Relevant

The Sad Science of Hipsterism
Not sure how accurate it all is though

Class Discussions

The group discussions add an interesting dynamic to the classroom. With a room full of unique people such as our class, the flood of different and conflicting ideas and opinions never stops. Some times (Most of the time) I find quite a few things said to be completely wrong, if not completely infuriating. But never the less, the format opens your mind to many different viewpoints and makes you think about your own opinion or stance on the given subject. I don't know that I "learn" like I would in a normal classroom setting, but this is a different kind of class, dealing with a different kind of topic. It's still pretty fun and it creates a freer classroom compared to most classroom's stuffy environment.

Is the Mainstream Necessary?

In class I raised the idea that school uniforms are a necessary addition to the American school sysytem. I think that looking at the idea of a subculture as a way to show that one disagrees with the idealogical standard from a place of privelege in some ways is bias. I think that when we have the ability to go against what mainstream it implies that we the ability to play a semi-level playing field. Many of the impoverished youth of the world are simply looking for basic physiological needs rather than a need to identify with music or clothing styles they can simply afford. Is it a true subculture that is built out of need to ignore our pyschical needs in order to maintain my identity? I think that many subcultutes in today's society pass their information through technology. How can they see this information if they have not even been afforded the luxury of computers or books in their classroom?

The Impact of Our Discussions

Who would have known just how different we truly are? I never realized how in depth our differences were until our discussions. Not only do we have subcultures in a mainstream society, but also subdivisions within these subcultures as well. During our youth we are constantly searching for a sense of identity, and these subcultures are what allow us to evaluate who we are as individuals. We learn what we love and hate, we find comfort in sharing these thoughts with others, and we develop into the people that we want to become. Personally speaking, I never considered myself a part of any particular subculture. However, I can now say that I feel compelled to. I am intrigued by the various discussions we have that make me think and feel differently about the world surrounding me, and one day I hope to find my true sense of identity as many others have.

There's your first time, but does there also have to be a last time?

In today's class we spent a fair amount of time talking about whether or not growing up and becoming an "adult" instead of being a "youth" means that you can no longer be part of a subculture with which you use to identify yourself. We specifically contended with the issue of 'responsibility' and whether by being an adult and having these 'responsibilities' we have to shut ourselves off from the youth subcultures we once were a part of. To me, the title "youth subculture" describes not necessarily the whole population of the subculture but rather indicates what stage in life we begin to shape our own identities as people. I have many experiences which have shown me that just because one puts on a face for the working world, or has a family and kids, or simply ages, does not mean that one has to abandon that thing that they identified with and had been part of their life for so long. I have run in to adults in all kinds of professions and levels of wealth who appreciate, and regularly attend concerts of, the same bands I like. For me this is always a fun experience because you meet someone who shares with you in that subcultural experience and stands as proof that your ability to be a part of that community can continue.
     While I will concede that the involvement may be less than that of a teenager or 20 year-old, adults still have a role as members of a subculture, which is to help bring that subculture to new generations of young people. In the story "Jackie was a Punk" the main character recieves guidance from an older companion in the subculture about how to act at shows. Similarly, I have seen adults who have brought their children along at every single heavy metal show I have been to. Whether it was Slayer, Machinehead, or Exodus, there were parents there, some with children half my age, exposing their children to a subculture and what it has to offer them. I believe this is what makes a subculture stand the test of time. The passing down of a subculture is what makes it a culture, not just a passing 'scene',with successive generations of members which help it to survive, and to grow.

Variety of Views

I have truly enjoyed the discussions that we have had as a class so far, and I'll tell you the main reason why: we have a variety of views. Everyone is not always agreeing with everyone else, and I love that. It provides for a much more interesting discussion atmosphere that many of my other discussion based classes are often missing. Not to mention, when others share their views, it opens my eyes up to new possibilities that I had not considered before. It challenges my thinking. I really enjoy that.

Youth Cultures Discussion

Thus far I have truly enjoyed our Youth Cultures class and the discussion that has taken place there. There are so many facets to each of the issues and questions we've discussed that I never would have considered on my own. Often, when I read the articles or text, I think I have a good grasp on the material, but through our talks in class, a new level and depth is always present and I am always excited to find such gems of knowledge.

Thoughts about the class so far

I feel like we've really opened a door into the seemingly bottomless depths of subcultures in class. I never realized how many groups actually existed; I really just wrote the individual members off as being different from the norm. Now I see that there is this "mainstream" culture and the "others" and as much as we want to give both definitive meanings, they have different meanings to each individual.

Creating new space

So, the goal of starting this blog is to engage you, the students in my class, in reflecting and sharing thoughts about youth cultures and other related topics. I haven't done that before in this public format, but it seems like a worthy idea to try out. Perhaps we will find others interested in the same content with whom to share our thinking. In the meantime, we can share it with each other. What are your thoughts about our conversations so far?