Tuesday, September 14, 2010
Week 3: Punk's Not Dead and Punk Attitude (and other thoughts about youth subcultures)
I'll start off by saying that I definitely think style can be a message. I think Punk's had a definite ideology, an anti-establishment, anti-authority attitude, that was meaningful to them and had an impact on society at large. Style can be a significant statement and is not simply a trivial matter of how people dress.
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While I think that Style can be a significant statement, it seems like style with relation to the subculture has been a major theme of our discussion, not only in class today but so far this semester. Should we identify subcultures by their style or on their ideaology? Personally, I think that style is a way for outsiders to identify the subculture. It sort of seems to me that to seperate the ideaology part of the culture from the style part of the culture you almost have to be in it. Is it possible for someone to wear a pink polo with matching plaid cargo shorts to be accepted into the Punk culture by other Punks? Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI believe that at first your acceptance into the punk subculture reflects your sense of style. People tend to associate with others who look similiar to themselves because they believe that they will obtain the same interests. However, I believe that if given the time to express their ideology, they will be accepted. Style is only a part of the punk scene. It is what we use to identify with others. With that being said, I believe our outward appearance does play a major role in acceptance, however at the end of the day our beliefs are what truely make us a part of the subculture.
ReplyDeleteI think the importance of style in a subculture depends on the subculture. In punk, style is more prominent because it is an effective way of expressing their ideology. In the vegetarian subculture, style isn't important at all. In other subcultures, it can probably go either way where some people choose to use style more to express themselves and others choose not to. Both are a part of the subculture, they just choose to express it differently.
ReplyDeleteI would have to disagree with style not being important in some cultures. Especially in a vegetarian subculture, where leather, fur, and any kind of animal fabric or textile products are practically forbidden. I believe it is important in all cultures. It defines who people are, specifically the vegetarian culture, by making them recognizable. I would agree with Ashley on identifying others that dress similar to us in hopes that they share the same interests.
ReplyDeleteI agree that style can make a statement. It can be an effective way to immediately project one's ideology to a large group of people. It can strengthen a sense of solidarity between members of a subculture as well as strengthen the contrast between "us" and "them" or subculture and mainstream. I do think style is necessary in a flourishing youth subculture. We are taught from the time we are children to identify and classify things based on appearance. This superficial perspective usually dissipates by the time we enter adulthood, yet it is still thriving during the time that most people join or form subcultures. Teenagers with common beliefs may hang out together, but I think similar styles of dress can solidify the group and set it on the path to becoming a subculture. Similar views on a topic may be enough to maintain a group identity with adults, but I feel youth still heavily rely on appearance to classify each other.
ReplyDeleteI don't think appearance or style are superficial. They are an important way for everyone to identify themselves. And people who don't care about their appearance, even that in a way, identifies the type of person they are. But it's true, at the end of the day, who people are on the inside is what will come out, no matter whom they are dressing like on the outside. But that is why people will always judge and be judged on how they look. It is always possible to see past the way a person dresses, but I don't think that happens as a result of subculture, it happens as a result of who you are as a person, how you believe others should be treated, which I do think can be distinctly seperate from the subculture you are in. And given the attitude of punk subcultures nature to rebel, this tolerance or acceptance of others who don't go as hardcore or more hardcore than yourself, in style particularly, this kind of understanding would HAVE to come from outside of the subculture mnetality. At that point it would be a personal decision, as it should be.
ReplyDeleteI think that getting hung up on the styles and fashion that comes out of subucultures is a superficial "outsider" view. I certainly agree that people within a subculture place importance on their own dress, but I don't think it's as important to people on the inside as it is to people observing them.
ReplyDeleteAt first I thought that style was a very superficial characteristic of a subculture. I did not like the idea that judgment was placed on a group of people simply because of how they dressed. After reading a few items from class I came to understand that style is a significant part of a subculture. The style alone can send a message and represent the specific ideology of a group. With that said, I still think that groups may be misinterpreted because of the way they dress.
ReplyDeleteI can see how style could be considered something that is very superficial, but do we not always bring up the point that how people dress is simply a reflection of who they are? (I'm specifically thinking about the arguments brought up by those against school uniforms.) In my opinion, style is just as important as any other aspect for a subculture. It only furthers the passion people have for the subculture they are involved in. I think it's important for not only people in the subculture but also for those not in it. For the "outsiders", style provides a means of identification. For the members of the subculture, style provides common ground that only further unites the group as a whole.
ReplyDeleteI think the common ground for the people in subcultures is whatever the subculture is about. Shouldn't that be enough? People have been talking about how subcultures are a way to separate yourself from "mainstream" society or say something like, "I'm not going to act and look this way just because mainstream society says so." If you have to dress a certain way to be a part of a certain culture (where the clothes aren't the main point) then isn't that the same thing? The subculture would be just as intolerant to others as the main culture they are trying to distinguish themselves from. Or something.
ReplyDeleteThere shouldn't be a "dress code" for a subculture. Even though style might represent an important part of the subculture since it is the most direct and obvious way of showing its idea to the world, appearance can never hold all what the subculture is about. People should not accept or refuse someone to be a part of the subculture group solely rely on how one dresses. It is undeniable that symbolic appearance reflects the principle of being different from mainstream and presenting new ideas, but when people dress like that simply because it is cool and popular, it loses its original meaning of being different.
ReplyDeleteIt is certainly hard to identify who is really a part of the subculture, and who is just a trend follower, so people tend to use more concrete way to express their mind. Most people want to earn the recognition of others (within the group), and they consider the material way might be the best to represent the abstract idea.
I've made my opinion pretty clear on the subject in class. I don't think that style is trivial. Not at all. The style has become so ingrained in the punk identity that to deny its importance is just simply wrong. But, I think the significance of the style is overblown. I don't think it's a prerequisite that you have to look a certain way to be punk. Applying any kind of uniform style to it kind of flies in the face of the non-conformity spirit of the movement. The nontraditionalness of the general punk attire is as much a part of the statement as anything else, but it's not the only part of the statement, and if someone holds all of those same ideals but they'd rather where a t-shirt and jeans, I don't think that makes them any less punk than the guy with the safety pins through his eye lids.
ReplyDeleteStyle is important to subcultures because it reflects ideology. Subcultures have an ideology that differs from the “mainstream” and therefore their style differs from the mainstream. Punks’ anti-authority attitude was reflected in their offensive way of dressing. Vegan subcultures’ aversion to killing animals is reflected in their no-animal byproduct selection of clothing. The faux- vintage wear and iconic t-shirts of hipsters, reflects their desire to be unique. Even tie-dye reflected the acceptance of psychedelic drug use among hippies. Although, I may be oversimplifying this connection between style and ideology, the clothes that people choose to wear are intrinsically connected to other choices that they make because all decisions are processed through the same subjective scope of their mind. This explains how clothes become reflections of who we think we are- even if the choice to reflect ideology in dress isn’t made consciously.
ReplyDeleteI think we've all come to a general consensus that style is primary component to identifying what subculture people are in. However there are exceptions like almost everything else in the world. Personally, I think the human conscience has largest impact to people actions within a subculture. I feel that it is much more complex and we should look past the materialistic things (hair, make-up, cloths). Instead we should identify or isolate what makes individuals deviate from mainstream sub-consciously or consciously. Additionally, style can be deceiving. In class we discussed how subcultures oftentimes branch out into new smaller subcultures but still share many of the same characteristics. The style between the two may be exactly the same, but the attitudes or mentality may differ. From the opposite perspective, these deviating subcultures may have a different style but still share many of the same ideas.
ReplyDelete