Thursday, December 2, 2010
Looking back
As we finish our conversations and presentations, what have you learned about the nature of youth cultures and how they operate? Looking back to the course questions: how do subcultures interact with so-called mainstream culture? How and why do participants choose to affiliate? Why do subcultures seem to form around race, class and gender categories? At this point, you should be able to draw conclusions about these social movements within our broader culture and their function both in providing an outlet for young voices and changing society over time. What are you thinking?
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The understanding that I've gained from this class is that although youth cultures form around different ideaologies, I feel like the general reason for forming a any youth subculture is generally the same: in order to escape from the confines of society's 'norms', whether that be with dress, music, action, etc...
ReplyDeleteAdolescence is a difficult time for most and while I would not conisder myself to be affiliated with a particular subculture, I can see the draw of them to others. At a time when you're not so sure of who you are or where you're going, it's nice to see there are others who are feeling similarly to you. I think the main reason people, youth in particular, join subcultures is because they are looking for a place to fit in and belong.
As for the race/class/gender aspect of subcultures, I think that this has to do a lot with the general history of racism and segregation in our country. This idea is so ingrained our culture that it's hard to break free from. Also, in the case of subcultures like hip-hop and rap, they formed due to the opression and negativity they were facing, so it makes sense that there is a racial divide within the group.
I had never really thought about subcultures or anything before I took this class, not considering myself part of one and all. Most of the things we talked about were new to me. I was surprised at how many similarities there were between the different cultures, like the reasons people joined, the way they have distinctive looks and ideas.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how even though many cultures claim to be anti-mainstream they can still share a lot with the mainstream, like a dislike of outsiders and conformity within the culture.
I think lots of people join because they are looking for people with similar interests or because they think there is something lacking in the mainstream. There could also be just a fun aspect or doing whatever their friends are.
Things I was also made to think about was the commercialization and question of how you know whether someone should be really considered a member of a particular culture. It is very hard to determine
Like James, I really never thought about subcultures and the feelings/beliefs tied with people joining them. I never realized that there were so many different groups around the world. I was really surprised when some groups I just thought of as people with certain beliefs and ideas were actually subcultures (ie today's presentations: comic books and parkour).
ReplyDeleteI was really interested in why people join these subcultures. Through this class, I concluded that people join these groups to step away from the norm in society and fit in with similar people. Some of these subcultures share the same beliefs across the board but choose not to associate themselves with other cultures. Some may even hold the same beliefs as the mainstream, although they define themselves as against the mainstream.
I was completely surprised by how big a role gender and economic status play in subcultures. I honestly believed that you could just walk right up and join something, but now I see how much there is under the surface of every subculture, with the exception of hipsters as I still cannot figure them out.
Commercialization was also a hot topic in how subcultures grow and whether they are still original and underground. I think everyone has their own thoughts about this subject among all the different subcultures. However, I thought it was interesting that the punk subculture grew completely out of commercialization.
Depending on your interest (whether it be music, fashion, or even beliefs), there are many different subcultures that you can join. Nonetheless, no matter which one you are a part of, all subcultures serve as outlets for escaping the norms of everyday society.
ReplyDeleteSince mainstream individuals blend in because they are average, many people who seek youth cultures are also searching for a sense of individuality. Youth cultures allow people to take an interest of theirs and develop it into a lifestyle. They are able to interact with people who share the same ideals and essentially create an environment where they feel unique, yet accepted.
When it comes to searching for others who share the same beliefs, many people tend to look for those who are similar to themselves. For this reason, many subcultures tend to have race, class or gender divides. The most common example of this is Hip-Hop, as Julie mentioned earlier. African Americans formed this subculture to deal with their oppression, therefore it is no surprise that Whites were not generally included.
In addition to all of this, I feel that is it important to look at commercialization as well. When a subculture is brought into the public eye and available for purchase, it takes away the true meaning of a subculture. People no longer join because they are passionate about something, but rather because all of their friends are buying the style or attending advertised events.
As one can see, there is a constant struggle to finding a balance between subcultures and the mainstream. If anything, I would consider it to be a circle that keeps repeating itself with no end. Subcultures form out of resistance, yet over time they tend to slowly become commercialized and adopted to the mainstream. Nevertheless, this is why I think so many new subcultures form. People are constantly looking for ways to be different and express themselves. Therefore, once a certain scene becomes popularized, people tend to reinterpret the subculture or find new, individualistic ways of expressing themselves.
I think that subcultures are in theory supposed to be in opposition to the mainstream but in reality are just fodder that the mainstream feeds off of. Any subculture that finds staying power is eventually swallowed up by the masses, like punk. Participants affiliate on different levels from poser to mild affiliation to hardcore. Participants affiliate based on a distaste for the mainstream, a longing to be a part of a community and a shared interest with other members. This is why subcultures form around race, class and gender. Shared experience lends itself to shared interests and because people of shared backgrounds have a common distaste for the mainstream, like LGBT people feeling harassed and misunderstood by the general population. I think that subcultures are essential in defining the personalities of individuals. Being a part of a subculture, even briefly in youth (which seems to be the norm) helps formulate an individual's ideals and tastes.
ReplyDeleteAfter studying snowboarding, I have applied the idea of resistance to other subcultures that we have discussed. Almost every subculture we've talked about has been created out of a resistance to another culture, society, belief system, etc. For example, snowboarding resisted the ideas that go along with skiing. Punk resisted mainstream ideals and not satisfied with society. It also resisted the current political system in place. The hip-hop culture was resisted the racial discrimination and oppression in urban areas. It seems that subcultures need something to resist in order to be considered a subculture.
ReplyDeleteI think subcultures are formed in opposition of mainstream culture. Usually people are not satisfied with the ideals of the mainstream or they believe they do not fit into any part of the mainstream, so they look to subcultures for a way to express their beliefs. They then realize that others have similar beliefs. I think this is how a subculture is formed. Subcultures then have to battle commercialism. The media often hops onto a subculture in order to make money and mass produce merchandise. Many believe that a subculture loses integrity when this happens.
I think this leads to why class, race, and gender are usually intricate parts to subcultures. In most cases people are discriminated against because of the differences associated with one's class, race, or gender. These three characteristics that cause resistance between groups of people.
Over the course of the semester I’ve had multiple ideas regarding the formal definition of a youth subculture. We studied such a diverse collection of subcultures that it oftentimes becomes difficult to isolate which characteristic they all share. In most cases subcultures have a conflict of ideas with mainstream, which is ultimately why they are categorized as a subculture. Some people, including myself, might argue that certain youth cultures exist that act in accordance with mainstream ideology and are given a stamp of approval from society. In that case, the aspect that classifies it as a youth culture is its failure to have a majority of the youth’s support.
ReplyDeleteI’ve also come to the conclusion that there are multiple ways in which participants can show their affiliation and dedication to their subcultures. Early in the semester I think we exhausted the most common ways (i.e. music and clothing style). As the semester progressed we started examining other mediums including art and dance. I’ve also realized that each of these expressions can be executed in so many different ways. For instance, for people not within a subculture can see two different dance styles and consider them to be the same thing when in actuality the two groups exist with different ideologies.
I think history proves that most subcultures form based off of race, class, and gender. Why? Well suppression, segregation, and discrimination against a minority oftentimes result in the creation of a youth subculture to express and create an escape from the difficulties there facing. One of the main points we’ve established is how much more difficult it is for women with many subculture because they face criticism from mainstream society and the people within the subculture already.
Overall, each subculture we’ve studied has had some affect on mainstream and in most cases certain aspects of the subculture were able to integrate itself into society and become more socially acceptable. Youth subcultures come and go over long periods of time but what they leave behind is more important. From much of what I’ve studied I’ve concluded that subcultures play a large role in what defines mainstream. That may not necessarily be the mission of the youth culture but it is still a remarkable achievement.
I've learned a lot about youth cultures and how they operate in this class, however, I think their ever-evolving nature is the most important aspect that I have learned. Prior to this class, I thought the punks of today were the same as the punks of the '80s or that goth would always remain underground. I basically thought subcultures were static. I thought they all had relatively clear ideologies almost like an unspoken constitution. However, I now know such ideas are silly. The meaning of subcultural participation varies from member to member. This is evident in one of the hip hop documentaries in which the women of the hip hop culture felt that misogyny wasn't an issue in the culture while male members spoke negatively about women.
ReplyDeleteThe ideology is subject to changes and dilution. Punk began with a strong DIY and anti-mainstream ideology, however, some would argue it turned into a refined mainstream commodity. The ideology may not even be uniform throughout the culture. As I am finding in my final research paper, there is a dispute between members of the rave culture as to the significance of drugs to their ideology.
Subcultures relation ship with the mainstream is not static either. For example, the Dogtown Z-boys began skateboarding in a manner that completely contradicted the mainstream approach. Yet, many of the Z-boys went on to highly paid sponsorships. Today, the sport has become a commodity in many ways,it has spent time on U.S postage stamps and seems to have been working with the mainstream.
The demographic composition of subcultures also changes over time. For a substantial amount of time time, girls actively participated in the punk scene. However, as the music became more hardcore, they became less visible at shows and in the scene in general.
There are so many ways in which subcultures resist static definitions. We have even had trouble precisely defining a subculture. As we have seen with Japanese cute culture, subcultures are not always anti-mainstream. The line between subculture and mainstream is often blurred. This class has taught me that definitive answers are rare in the study of subcultures.
I disagree with a few of the above comments that think subcultures are only something for the mainstream to take over. The more I researched my paper topic of veganism, the more I realized that a subculture really does have the impact to change, if not the mainstream, individual lives. And in the long run, isn't that what's most important? It's not always about getting everyone to agree with you, it's about why the subculture is important to you personally and the impact it makes on the collection of people in a subculture.
ReplyDeleteSubcultures form around race, class and genders because that is how subcultures form, through similarities. It is people coming together who share common goals, beliefs, or interests that don't quite fall into line with the mainstream. These people come together based on their other similarities as well, which accounts for the race and class connections. In keeping with what I've said before, I don't think a subculture can be defined as people who share common interests, particularly when we discuss ones focused on youth. For an interest to become a subculture, it must set itself apart from the mainstream culture we all observe in some way. Veganism is again a perfect example. It is an interest, a lifestyle, a belief system and is so wholly different from the mainstream that to be vegan is to be different from nearly every other person you know. Can the mainstream attempt to twist something so unique to its own marketing means? Perhaps, if I were to look at the mainstream in a negative light, but I do not. I see the mainstream, especially in our capitalist country, morphing itself to cater to the subculture, rather than attempting to take it over. Some see it as a bad thing when stores start carrying purchasable subculture items and messages. But I see that as the subculture pushing into the mainstream and not the other way around.
When applying to the honors program last year after I had transferred to Temple, one of the questions on the application asked me to look at the course catalogue and pick an honors class that I would be most interested in taking. Based on the course description I chose Youth Cultures because I thought it was interesting that a class would be examining the actions of people my own age. Today, like never before, young people are given the freedom and opportunity to really explore their world. With this freedom, they oftentimes choose to create their own world with their own ideology and values. These creations manifest themselves as youth subcultures and after this class I think that they really reflect both the mainstream and also the whims adolescence.
ReplyDeleteI think that youth subcultures reflect the mainstream because the participants are all exposed to the mainstream. They choose to challenge the mainstream but never seem fully capable of subverting the restrictions that living in the mainstream places on life. Unfortunately such restrictions as class, race, and gender seem omnipresent when they influence subcultures as well as the mainstream. The subcultures that we have studied seem to always end up as segregated by gender or heavily racialized and perhaps this reflects the issues of race and gender in the mainstream.
I also think that youth subcultures by nature are doomed to be ephemeral constructs. The participants are driven by their adolescent freedom and so are able to participate in something that they truly enjoy. Unfortunately most people do not enjoy this freedom forever. In some ways this is how the death of a subculture transpires. When the original youth become encumbered with the responsibilities of being an adult, new youth move into the subculture, which causes an adaptation of the subculture. Without this transference of a culture to a new group, the subculture dies and because of this transference, the subculture can change to beyond recognition, killing the subculture in another fashion.
Before this class, I don’t recall ever consciously thinking about youth subcultures, or subcultures at all for that matter. I never really sat down and considered if I was part of one or if I ever would be. Coming into this class, I expected just to learn the basics of some different subcultures, but I think the approach that this class took in order to expose us to these different subcultures was unique, highly effective, and very interesting. One of the main things I learned from our discussions was what youth cultures actually are and how they are formed and sustained. Youth cultures form because of various reasons from rebelling against mainstream society to simply joining with other people that have the same interest and passion. I learned that youth cultures are not simply fads or trends, but to they are the way of life for those who are very deeply involved. Although from an outsider’s perspective youth cultures can seem very different, they all share some things in common, whether that be in ideology, style, or the reason for their creation. I think subcultures exist because of mainstream culture, and mainstream culture exists because of subcultures. I don’t think one can exist without the other, because there will always be opposing views on the same topics. In this way, I think both cultural spheres give and take from each other. Participants choose to stray from this mainstream culture and join subcultures because as everyone grows up, our outside influences change the way you perceive the world and it is only human nature to find those who have similar beliefs. I agree with Julie when she says that adolescence is a confusing time, and it only makes sense that during this time people with similar feelings will associate with each other. This reasoning is also why so many subcultures form around race, class, and gender. People are attracted to those like them. These divisions that subcultures form around occur based on prior experiences, knowledge, and ideologies. The most interesting aspect of this class was realizing how youth subcultures personally affect me, whether that is through the media, commercialization, or simply interacting with passionate youth subculture participants.
ReplyDeleteWhat I've learned about youth cultures is about how they both form and evolve. It seems that almost all youth cultures follow the same path. They start as a reaction against the mainstream. It makes sense that they are reactionary in origin, as it seems that the main incentive to join a subculture is to distance oneself or to rebel from the popular aesthetic or opinion. But then as these subcultures start to gain traction, they inevitably end up being co-opted by the mainstream. Usually as a way to sell money. The powers that be see how popular these groups become and recognize where they can get more money.
ReplyDeletePeople choose to join as a way to find their own identity. Usually people will find something that they have an interest in and choose a subculture from there, but almost anything will do when a person is trying to find himself and distance himself from the people around him.
I think subcultures seem to form around race, class, and gender categories because in general, people separate themselves that way. It's in our nature to go off with the people who are the most immediately similar to yourself. It gives people a point of identification and camaraderie. And then when you add in factors of exclusivity like the very specific subject matter and setting of hip-hop, subcultures seem tailer made for select groups of people. The point of subcultures is to distance yourself from the other, and race, class, and gender are the most obvious dividing lines.
After doing research on video gamers, I am more convinced than ever that subcultures are formed of people who truly love the nature of the subculture and what the subculture stands for. Unfortunately, those same people, and this applies to all subcultures, almost always have a ridiculous sense of entitlement and intolerance. Towards newcomers, the vast majority of participants are cold, unwelcoming, and downright conceited. They feel resentment towards the "posers," "casual participants," or even interested bystanders, which makes growth within a subculture difficult. Everybody argues over the identity of the "true" participants.
ReplyDeleteBut as hard as it may be to effectively join a subculture, it is extremely important to our society that we do. The United States in particular thrives on diversity. As youth, it is our responsibility and our natural intuition to develop individual thoughts , beliefs, and values. Inherently, we befriend the people with comparable traits. We make these decisions in an effort to escape from the seemingly unrelenting grasp of our parents and other authority figures.
Thinking of subcultures in more basic terms, they are largely segregated by race, gender, or class because the principes that subcultures decide to stand for and against can often be polarizing and controversial to different demographics of people. Additionally, some subcultures only accept people of a certain race or gender, adding to the exclusivity and high barrier of entry I mentioned before.
As we all have noticed in class, through discussions, there is rarely a point we all agree on. Such, I believe, is the nature of subcultures in general. Youth subcultures are about confused youth searching for direction, and to expect a definitive answer on any matter regarding these groups of young people is asking a lot.
I definitely agree with what several people said about being surprised at how similiar all of the cultures we looked at really were. They all shared a deviant attitude, many shared types and means of expression and most are comparable to religions (which I found particularly interesting).
ReplyDeleteThey all also seemed to be very different from the stereotypes that the media portrays (intentinally so, usually). Also, it is very difficult to define a culture or "mainstream" as these are fluid in nature and change from class to class (or even moment to moment in a single class).
I've enjoyed our passionate arguements about who the real, authentic true-blue members of cultures are, and who are fake, or followers. This was probobly are most common talking point I think. It was definitely interesting to hear all the different perspectives, and very illumiinating into the cultures themselves, just from our small sampling of youth around the table each class.
This class has really opened my eyes to what a youth sub-culture is and how they are present around us. From what I've gathered from our presentations and discussions, a youth culture can necessarily be defined, but rather described to the best of ones ability.
ReplyDeleteDue to the fact that youth cultures span beyond the borders of age, ethnicity, sex, race, geography, etc. no one person or stereotype can define a youth-culture completely. The unique dynamics of each individual build and grow together with others to form what an outsider sees as a sub-culture. People define the sub-culture, not the other way around.
In regards to mainstream, youth sub-cultures don't HAVE to be rebellious, or strange, or far from mainstream. There will always be a "different" group compared to the mainstream. However, its when the mainstream, or majority of people, downplay a youth sub-culture or glamorize it without understanding it, that the sub-culture faces a threat.
Youth sub-cultures are by far the greatest example of youths' needs to belong. Whether it be bounded by ideals, sex, hobbies, dislikes, etc, the main attractiveness of these sub-cultures are the idea of finding someone just like you.
I must say I've taken a great interest in the class and the discussions that we've had. Even within ourselves , we can reflect society and its ideas which was overall fascinating and my favorite thing about this class.
The subject of scrutiny in class today was the "mainstream". If it exists, what about it makes it "mainstream" and whether or not such a thing existed as the author of the article we read claims it does not in this age. I am inclined to disagree with him. If it were the case that there was no mainstream then a lot of academics would not have anything to study, rebels would have nothing to rebel against, and all those fun subcultures we have studied would just be "those other guys", a separate clique if you will.
ReplyDeleteWhile subcultures to tend to segregate themselves, often by demographic (race, class, gender, etc.) most are more concerned with this seemingly "non-existent" mainstream. How is it then that they have something with which to be displeased? My answer lies partially within Poniewozik's article. The mainstream has diversified itself, you can now get your widely marketed, publicly appealing everycar in several different colors besides Black (and not just Black a la Ford). You can buy a dream house in any suburb you like (if you can tell the difference), and you can now not only watch TV but watch hundreds of different things to suit your taste. Yes the mainstream has grown some colorful plumage, but it is by no means dead.
When we ask "Why do people join sublcultures ?" I believe it is because some people look at that bright plumage, but instead see dirty, raggedy cardboard "feathers" hastily spray painted in ugly shades of boring colors. Still others decide that this plumage, glorious as it may be, is just too shiny and they need something a little more realistic.
This is what the subculture offers people. A chance to be part of a world inhabited by a dedicated few who, like you, wanted something which they could call their own without feeling like it was being marketed down their throats. Something real, something not made of cardboard.
Thinking about Poneiwozik's article, I believe that just as the mainstream has changed, so has its perception in the eyes of those in subcultures.
ReplyDeleteWith Hip-Hop, it was White upper-class oppression; with the Z-Boys and Parkour it was the definition of sport and of the acceptable use of public spaces; with Punk, it was with fashion, banality and political deception. The list goes on. The point is what is "mainstream" depends on who you ask. It is all about your subjective experience of everyday life that people who do not see themselves as part of a subculture lead.
I have enjoyed this class because not only did I gain a new perspective on some subcultures I either had never heard of, or knew very little about, but I also got to ask myself the big questions about why I started calling myself a "Metalhead" in the first place. It was because I saw something in Heavy Metal music that was not anywhere else I looked. The emotions that heavy metal expresses are conveyed in a way that kind of spoke to me as a person and to my experiences in life.
In this class we have noticed that a lot of subcultures have been segregated by race or class or gender and we cannot seem to figure out why. I would say it is because people who break off from the mainstream form a group of likeminded people to help them start their revolution. They look for those who are like them; hence you see a racial 'barrier' in Rap or Punk and you see challenging of gender roles in Riot Grrrl. Each of these movements formed around people who felt the same sort of sentiments towards the mainstream, so it is not a surprise that those sentiments coincided with their demographics.
Finally, the debate that resurfaced: "arrested development". I cannot stand it, mostly because I see counter-examples constantly as I go about my daily life. Not wanting to be Mr./Mrs. Suburbs and wanting your kids to listen to Black Sabbath instead of Barney does not make you immature. It makes you different. This class is called youth cultures, but that title has always referred to who joins them, not who LEAVES them. There is no data on longevity in subculture because of this assumption of immaturity. People can do a lot with their lives and they will never truly throw away something they see as part of their identity.
Thinking about Poneiwozik's article, I believe that just as the mainstream has changed, so has its perception in the eyes of those in subcultures.
ReplyDeleteWith Hip-Hop, it was White upper-class oppression; with the Z-Boys and Parkour it was the definition of sport and of the acceptable use of public spaces; with Punk, it was with fashion, banality and political deception. The list goes on. The point is what is "mainstream" depends on who you ask. It is all about your subjective experience of everyday life that people who do not see themselves as part of a subculture lead.
I have enjoyed this class because not only did I gain a new perspective on some subcultures I either had never heard of, or knew very little about, but I also got to ask myself the big questions about why I started calling myself a "Metalhead" in the first place. It was because I saw something in Heavy Metal music that was not anywhere else I looked. The emotions that heavy metal expresses are conveyed in a way that kind of spoke to me as a person and to my experiences in life.
In this class we have noticed that a lot of subcultures have been segregated by race or class or gender and we cannot seem to figure out why. I would say it is because people who break off from the mainstream form a group of likeminded people to help them start their revolution. They look for those who are like them; hence you see a racial 'barrier' in Rap or Punk and you see challenging of gender roles in Riot Grrrl. Each of these movements formed around people who felt the same sort of sentiments towards the mainstream, so it is not a surprise that those sentiments coincided with their demographics.
Finally, the debate that resurfaced: "arrested development". I cannot stand it, mostly because I see counter-examples constantly as I go about my daily life. Not wanting to be Mr./Mrs. Suburbs and wanting your kids to listen to Black Sabbath instead of Barney does not make you immature. It makes you different. This class is called youth cultures, but that title has always referred to who joins them, not who LEAVES them. There is no data on longevity in subculture because of this assumption of immaturity. People can do a lot with their lives and they will never truly throw away something they see as part of their identity.